Post by leonardtea on May 12, 2019 15:42:28 GMT
Alright, this'll probably be one of the geekier posts I'll make on here. Anyone paying attention to recent trends in gaming hardware might be aware of the trend of "Classic Mini" consoles (miniaturized versions of classic gaming consoles, with a small library of classics pre-installed), kickstarted by Nintendo's NES Classic Mini. Next to that and their SNES Classic Mini other companies are getting on board as well, such as Sega and their upcoming Mega Drive Mini, as well Sony with the Playstation Classic.
The latter of which, well, is thought to be an abject failure, seemingly/presumably rushed out so Sony is also able to quickly get a piece of the mini console pie.
The library included is regarded as a mixed bag, with some of the go-to big names conspicuously absent (e.g. no Crash Bandicoot, Spyro the Dragon, or Tomb Raider games), and the library is smaller than any of the existing or upcoming mini systems, with 20 (SNES Mini had 21, NES Mini had 30, and Mega Drive Mini will have 40). There were also other odd decisions, such as opting for the PAL versions of some of the original games rather than NTSC, and this goes for all Playstation Classic systems regardless of the region you buy them.
As PAL games at the time were made for 50Hz screens, this means that opting for the PAL versions of those games you get games that both run at a lower framerate than you otherwise might get as well as just not being optimal for the now international norm of 60Hz TV screens.
Additionally, in some places the PS1 Classic could actually run slower than an original PS1, independent of regional version used. Which all just comes together into being a bit of a mess.
(For an assessment of the technical aspects, I recommend Digital Foundry's analysis here:)
This all prompted me into speculating on how I personally "ideally" would like a hypothetical PS2 Classic to be done. I put 'ideally' in scare-quotes as it's more ideal in terms of it being an all-things-considered moderately feasible best case scenario to me.
Miscellaneous:
For starters, I would increase the packed-in library size to a whopping 50 games (I'll discuss what'd be my suggestions for it later).
Course as PS2 games originally were stored on DVDs instead of CDs or game cartridges and hence will require much more storage space than games on previous mini systems, I would personally suggest an 250-320GB HDD or some other relatively cheap storage medium to get this done. I presume this will still mean a price hike, so I'll state right now this hypothetical system is gonna be more expensive than immediate competitors, let's say 150-200 Euros. But I think for what one gets it's gonna be a fair trade-off.
Additionally, the PS2 is still the best-selling home console in history, so plenty of people in their 20s and early 30s are bound to have nostalgia for the system. If you also add to that the fact that PC emulation of PS2 games is more difficult than say Nintendo games especially on lower-spec computers, that not all of the games listed will be cheaply or readily available, and of course the novelty of a miniaturized plug-and-play console, I think it all comes down to a good deal.
The last version of the PS2 released was already quite small, so admittedly I would guess adding in the relatively large storage medium I prescribed make it only a moderate decrease in size compared to the PS2 Slim at most. However, the mini console I think should be modeled after the original 'Fat' model, as that's the more iconic design, and relative to that one the dimensions will be drastically reduced.
All mini consoles thusfar have controllers that replicate the originals but with USB plugs instead of the proprietary solutions of the originals, and this one would not be an exception. As for the location of the USB slots, I think it should follow the PS1 Classic in hiding two in the two miniaturised original controller ports. I also think it should keep the two USB slots located below the controller ports on the original Fat PS2, adding support for up to four controllers for the PS2 Classic (let's say the system would come with 1-2 controllers, and more controllers can be bought separately).
Games:
Now for my suggested list of games, in alphabetical order.
01. Ace Combat 5: The Unsung War
02. Ape Escape 2
03. Ape Escape 3
04. Bully
05. Devil May Cry
06. Devil May Cry 2
07. Devil May Cry 3
08. Dragon Quest VIII
09. Final Fantasy X
10. Final Fantasy XII
11. God Hand
12. God of War
13. God of War 2
14. Grand Theft Auto III
15. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
16. Gran Turismo 4
17. Ico
18. Jak and Daxter
19. Jak II
20. Jak 3
21. Katamari Damacy
22. Killzone
23. Kingdom Hearts
24. Kingdom Hearts 2
25. Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance
26. Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence
27. Monster Hunter 2
28. Okami
29. PaRappa the Rapper 2
30. Persona 3 FES
31. Persona IV
32. Ratchet & Clank
33. Ratchet & Clank: Going Commando
34. Ratchet & Clank: Up Your Arsenal
35. Shadow of the Collosus
36. Silent Hill 2
37. Silent Hill 3
38. Sly Cooper and the Thevius Raccoonus
39. Sly 2: Band of Thieves
40. Sly 3: Honor Among Thieves
41. Soulcalibur III
42. SSX
43. Tekken Tag Tournament
44. Tekken 5
45. TimeSplitters
46. Twisted Metal: Black
47. Wipeout Fusion
48. Yakuza
49. Yakuza 2
50. Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner
[Note: I didn't necessarily choose all games based on what I'd personally be interested in playing; I also chose games based on how iconic or influential they were, overall reception, cult status, and to somewhat vary things up genre-wise. Also with the exception of the GTA games, all games here either are or were at the time exclusive to the PS2, which I think would mitigate the extend of any possible IP problems, and no doubt some of those included will aid the bang-for-your-buck factor.]
I also have ten 'bonus' suggestions (how these are relevant even though I only mentioned 50 packed-in games I'll get to in a moment):
01. Ace Combat 04: Shattered Skies
02. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
03. Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec
04. Final Fantasy X-2
05. Jak X: Combat Racing
06. Monster Hunter
07. Ratchet: Deadlocked
08. Tekken 4
09. We Love Katamari
10. Zone of the Enders
Online Functionality:
None of the previous mini consoles have had online functionality. Now though I think it would be unreasonable to expect Sony to put up online servers for those PS2 games that supported online play back in the day, a feature that would be cool is the ability to download more games onto your system which currently isn't possible without hacking your mini consoles and dumping ROMs on them, with mixed results.
How would this work? I think for the PS2 Classic you could have a PS Store-like app on it that lets you browse a moderate selection of PS2 games (and PS1 games if they wanna go the extra mile) not by default available on the system, which you can then buy for a reasonable price (say 5-15 Euros).
For additional convenience, to pay one can log in with an existing Playstation Network account and hence the account balance you have on your PS4, PS3 and/or Vita carries over to the PS2 Classic store app, which just like on any of the aforementioned systems you can top up either by credit card or punching in a PSN voucher code. You can also delete and redownload purchased games as you desire without having to worry about re-purchasing it, as your account has already been registered as having bought it for the system.
Video Output:
Though of course the PS2 Classic should have a HDMI port like every other mini console and modern systems generally, there remains the question which output it should convert from. I think the answer to that should be Component. Even though PS2 games only ran around the ballpark of 480i or 480p, Component still offers a modest but noticable improvement over alternatives, especially Composite output. A PS2 using Composite cables looks rather blurry and washed-out blown up on a modern HD television. Though it's no miracle, Component is definitely the more presentable option.
(For a helpful comparison between all the available outputs, see this video:)
Which Version?:
As discussed at the beginning, curiously the PAL versions of some of the PS1 Classic titles were included rather than NTSC. Back when tube televisions were still the norm in Europe a 50Hz output was the standard, and games were designed around that consideration. Meaning the majority of console games in the PAL region before the 7th console generaton were made to run at a lower framerate than their NTSC counterparts (so 50fps instead of 60fps, etc.).
Also another thing to take into account, of the 50 games mentioned here, 10 support progressive scan in the NTSC region (13 out of 60 if additional suggestions are included), but only 2 of those same 10 (or 4 out of 13) support progressive scan in the PAL region.
In short, there is absolutely zero advantage to opting for the PAL versions over NTSC either in terms of visual quality or performance.
Final Suggestions:
It'd be cool if there was an FXAA or SMAA option for one's system, especially as FXAA is usually a default option in PS2 emulation and either form of Anti-Aliasing isn't that graphically taxing, and can help with cleaning games up a bit. Even if it does result in reduced performance in some titles, being able to toggle on AA would still be a welcome addition.
Other than that, I think the system should at least come with the image filtering features available on the Nintendo mini consoles (sharpness options, scanlines, etc.). At minimum they should try to be as good as their competitors in terms of feature offering.
The latter of which, well, is thought to be an abject failure, seemingly/presumably rushed out so Sony is also able to quickly get a piece of the mini console pie.
The library included is regarded as a mixed bag, with some of the go-to big names conspicuously absent (e.g. no Crash Bandicoot, Spyro the Dragon, or Tomb Raider games), and the library is smaller than any of the existing or upcoming mini systems, with 20 (SNES Mini had 21, NES Mini had 30, and Mega Drive Mini will have 40). There were also other odd decisions, such as opting for the PAL versions of some of the original games rather than NTSC, and this goes for all Playstation Classic systems regardless of the region you buy them.
As PAL games at the time were made for 50Hz screens, this means that opting for the PAL versions of those games you get games that both run at a lower framerate than you otherwise might get as well as just not being optimal for the now international norm of 60Hz TV screens.
Additionally, in some places the PS1 Classic could actually run slower than an original PS1, independent of regional version used. Which all just comes together into being a bit of a mess.
(For an assessment of the technical aspects, I recommend Digital Foundry's analysis here:)
This all prompted me into speculating on how I personally "ideally" would like a hypothetical PS2 Classic to be done. I put 'ideally' in scare-quotes as it's more ideal in terms of it being an all-things-considered moderately feasible best case scenario to me.
Miscellaneous:
For starters, I would increase the packed-in library size to a whopping 50 games (I'll discuss what'd be my suggestions for it later).
Course as PS2 games originally were stored on DVDs instead of CDs or game cartridges and hence will require much more storage space than games on previous mini systems, I would personally suggest an 250-320GB HDD or some other relatively cheap storage medium to get this done. I presume this will still mean a price hike, so I'll state right now this hypothetical system is gonna be more expensive than immediate competitors, let's say 150-200 Euros. But I think for what one gets it's gonna be a fair trade-off.
Additionally, the PS2 is still the best-selling home console in history, so plenty of people in their 20s and early 30s are bound to have nostalgia for the system. If you also add to that the fact that PC emulation of PS2 games is more difficult than say Nintendo games especially on lower-spec computers, that not all of the games listed will be cheaply or readily available, and of course the novelty of a miniaturized plug-and-play console, I think it all comes down to a good deal.
The last version of the PS2 released was already quite small, so admittedly I would guess adding in the relatively large storage medium I prescribed make it only a moderate decrease in size compared to the PS2 Slim at most. However, the mini console I think should be modeled after the original 'Fat' model, as that's the more iconic design, and relative to that one the dimensions will be drastically reduced.
All mini consoles thusfar have controllers that replicate the originals but with USB plugs instead of the proprietary solutions of the originals, and this one would not be an exception. As for the location of the USB slots, I think it should follow the PS1 Classic in hiding two in the two miniaturised original controller ports. I also think it should keep the two USB slots located below the controller ports on the original Fat PS2, adding support for up to four controllers for the PS2 Classic (let's say the system would come with 1-2 controllers, and more controllers can be bought separately).
Games:
Now for my suggested list of games, in alphabetical order.
01. Ace Combat 5: The Unsung War
02. Ape Escape 2
03. Ape Escape 3
04. Bully
05. Devil May Cry
06. Devil May Cry 2
07. Devil May Cry 3
08. Dragon Quest VIII
09. Final Fantasy X
10. Final Fantasy XII
11. God Hand
12. God of War
13. God of War 2
14. Grand Theft Auto III
15. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
16. Gran Turismo 4
17. Ico
18. Jak and Daxter
19. Jak II
20. Jak 3
21. Katamari Damacy
22. Killzone
23. Kingdom Hearts
24. Kingdom Hearts 2
25. Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance
26. Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence
27. Monster Hunter 2
28. Okami
29. PaRappa the Rapper 2
30. Persona 3 FES
31. Persona IV
32. Ratchet & Clank
33. Ratchet & Clank: Going Commando
34. Ratchet & Clank: Up Your Arsenal
35. Shadow of the Collosus
36. Silent Hill 2
37. Silent Hill 3
38. Sly Cooper and the Thevius Raccoonus
39. Sly 2: Band of Thieves
40. Sly 3: Honor Among Thieves
41. Soulcalibur III
42. SSX
43. Tekken Tag Tournament
44. Tekken 5
45. TimeSplitters
46. Twisted Metal: Black
47. Wipeout Fusion
48. Yakuza
49. Yakuza 2
50. Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner
[Note: I didn't necessarily choose all games based on what I'd personally be interested in playing; I also chose games based on how iconic or influential they were, overall reception, cult status, and to somewhat vary things up genre-wise. Also with the exception of the GTA games, all games here either are or were at the time exclusive to the PS2, which I think would mitigate the extend of any possible IP problems, and no doubt some of those included will aid the bang-for-your-buck factor.]
I also have ten 'bonus' suggestions (how these are relevant even though I only mentioned 50 packed-in games I'll get to in a moment):
01. Ace Combat 04: Shattered Skies
02. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
03. Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec
04. Final Fantasy X-2
05. Jak X: Combat Racing
06. Monster Hunter
07. Ratchet: Deadlocked
08. Tekken 4
09. We Love Katamari
10. Zone of the Enders
Online Functionality:
None of the previous mini consoles have had online functionality. Now though I think it would be unreasonable to expect Sony to put up online servers for those PS2 games that supported online play back in the day, a feature that would be cool is the ability to download more games onto your system which currently isn't possible without hacking your mini consoles and dumping ROMs on them, with mixed results.
How would this work? I think for the PS2 Classic you could have a PS Store-like app on it that lets you browse a moderate selection of PS2 games (and PS1 games if they wanna go the extra mile) not by default available on the system, which you can then buy for a reasonable price (say 5-15 Euros).
For additional convenience, to pay one can log in with an existing Playstation Network account and hence the account balance you have on your PS4, PS3 and/or Vita carries over to the PS2 Classic store app, which just like on any of the aforementioned systems you can top up either by credit card or punching in a PSN voucher code. You can also delete and redownload purchased games as you desire without having to worry about re-purchasing it, as your account has already been registered as having bought it for the system.
Video Output:
Though of course the PS2 Classic should have a HDMI port like every other mini console and modern systems generally, there remains the question which output it should convert from. I think the answer to that should be Component. Even though PS2 games only ran around the ballpark of 480i or 480p, Component still offers a modest but noticable improvement over alternatives, especially Composite output. A PS2 using Composite cables looks rather blurry and washed-out blown up on a modern HD television. Though it's no miracle, Component is definitely the more presentable option.
(For a helpful comparison between all the available outputs, see this video:)
Which Version?:
As discussed at the beginning, curiously the PAL versions of some of the PS1 Classic titles were included rather than NTSC. Back when tube televisions were still the norm in Europe a 50Hz output was the standard, and games were designed around that consideration. Meaning the majority of console games in the PAL region before the 7th console generaton were made to run at a lower framerate than their NTSC counterparts (so 50fps instead of 60fps, etc.).
Also another thing to take into account, of the 50 games mentioned here, 10 support progressive scan in the NTSC region (13 out of 60 if additional suggestions are included), but only 2 of those same 10 (or 4 out of 13) support progressive scan in the PAL region.
In short, there is absolutely zero advantage to opting for the PAL versions over NTSC either in terms of visual quality or performance.
Final Suggestions:
It'd be cool if there was an FXAA or SMAA option for one's system, especially as FXAA is usually a default option in PS2 emulation and either form of Anti-Aliasing isn't that graphically taxing, and can help with cleaning games up a bit. Even if it does result in reduced performance in some titles, being able to toggle on AA would still be a welcome addition.
Other than that, I think the system should at least come with the image filtering features available on the Nintendo mini consoles (sharpness options, scanlines, etc.). At minimum they should try to be as good as their competitors in terms of feature offering.
