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Post by Mātōnya on May 10, 2019 20:19:58 GMT
I was talking with someone on Twitter today and it seems to me that there isn't a pro-life (anti-choice) argument that isn't essentially patriarchal in the sense that women's bodies and lives must become morally beholden to—and less important in some way than—the potential lives of unborn fetuses. Like, I get that there can be moral considerations for fetuses, but I can't be made to understand how any such considerations don't inherently contravene considerations about women as persons with agency. In the end, women are morally beholden to become vessels, potentially against their wishes, and are thus a kind of slave class for nurturing any fetuses that end up forming inside of them. That how I am interpreting these issues.
So if there are any arguments that seem convincing or could convince me otherwise, I would like to be made aware of any. I understand why moral considerations for fetuses and for women might be in conflict, and perhaps they just are, but being anti-choice defaults to the moral considerations of the fetuses. Am I missing something? Is the pro-life case salvageable without demanding that women become secondary creatures?
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Post by somestingray on May 11, 2019 23:45:51 GMT
Christopher Kaczor's "The Ethics of Abortion" is supposed to be the best pro-life case. I haven't read it yet but I've heard it's very good. I'm inlined to agree with you re: pro-life arguments being essentially patriarchal.
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Post by EB on May 12, 2019 1:48:34 GMT
I'm definitely going to have to buy that book Looking through the table of contents, I even see that they bring up artificial wombs, which is something that I'm in favor of. Wish pro-lifers would focus more on making that a reality since it would be a win win for everyone.
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Post by Mātōnya on May 12, 2019 10:19:34 GMT
That's actually something I brought up myself in the conversation I was having. I said something like, "Look, if what it meant to create an embryo is for a woman and a man to spit into a cup, then yeah, the moral considerations for that embryo might matter if it grows into a fetus, and I would agree that something intuitively seems wrong about throwing that cup and its contents into the dumpster. However, since it's the body of a woman involved, why does the fetus's moral considerations just have to instantly override the woman's? Where is the justification in that if it isn't just that you believe that fetuses have more moral worth than women as a rule?"
So I guess I would probably lean more toward being "pro-life" myself if getting an abortion meant removing the embryo/fetus and putting it inside an artificial womb as opposed to destroying it. But since that's not an option, it's not an option. The issue of artificial wombs is just a matter of eliminating the dilemma between whose moral considerations should be considered the most, but it doesn't actually provide the solution to the dilemma itself. Like, I still don't see how you can justify be pro-life NOW by saying that sometime in the future we might be able to just not worry about these dilemmas in the first place with the use of technology.
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